I have been sewing every day this week...muslin after muslin (test blouses). I am currently going back to a previous one which seems better than the most recent ones! Well, *almost*...that previous one DID need a few changes, but after doing subsequent blouses, I have discovered which changes are good and which are not! I can rip the most recent one and modify it to have the desired changes, although I'll have to cut a new sleeve.

The problem is...I am STILL getting binding in that front armhole!

So, tonight, I persuaded DH to measure me again...the F and B armhole depths, plus CB-to-floor, and SHP to floor....and sure enough, there was a mistake in his previous numbers!

Last time, he had said my BACK armhole depth was 6.25" (when the front measured 7.375")...and I had been totally shocked that the back ah was so much shorter than the front.

Well, turns out-- it isn't!

The back AH depth actually measures 7". That makes SO MUCH more sense! Having the F-ah be 1cm larger than the back seems acceptable...whereas having it 3cm longer just seems *wrong*, especially given that my shoulders roll forward, so the place that we are measuring TO is a bit forward (which should make the front shorter and the back longer!).

So, it looks like I will be using the DART OVERRIDE TOOL after all!

Anyway, another day, another muslin!

Helping Measurements

As you know, I have struggled with getting the right fit in a sleeved garment. I struggle with getting a balance between adequate back width to enable comfort and movement and excessive width causing unsightly folds and wrinkles. I decided to use Minott’s book to assist me in evaluating my PMB blouse pattern.
.
.
She takes a few different measurements than PMB, including the chest and blade width… so I had to mark my body and take those measurements. Using an eyeliner pencil, I marked the placement of a shoulder seam on top of my bare shoulder so that, when seen from the side, it is dividing my upper arm into front and back halves.
.
.
Then I located the end of the shoulder bone, so that I had a + marked on the shoulder skin. With a necklace on, I could measure from neck to one line of the + mark to verify my shoulder length measurement, and use the other line to divide front and back.
.
.
With arms to my side, I put a small ‘V’ on my skin at the top of the crease that forms between body and arm. I did this on both sides of my body, left and right, front and back.
.
.
Then, with my hands clasped and lowered in front, DH measured across the back of my body BETWEEN the points of these ‘V’ marks to give me my BLADE measurement (16.75”). Then I clasped and lowered my hands in back and he measured across my chest, again between these ‘V’ marks (14.5”). [Interesting note: Clasping the hands (as opposed to allowing them to hang at the sides) increases these measurements (on me) by 1”.]
.
.
Then we measured from the SHOULDER POINT line down in back to the point of the V (5”), and from SHP down in front to the point of the V (4.25”). This gave me the distance DOWN from the pattern’s shoulder to which I would apply the chest and blade measurements. In front, using a 15” FRONT SHOULDER WIDTH measurement gives me the needed 14.5” chest width across the pattern at the 4.25” level. This is without changing the ah notch placement up or down. I have decided that leaving the AH notch at the ZERO height position might be best for me.
.
.
In back, I increased my measured BSW to 16.75” which gives me *almost* enough blade width at the correct level (5” down). This pattern is actually about 1/8” short of being wide enough there…even though I did 2 clicks outward on the AH SHAPE TOOL. I am considering changing that BSW measurement to 17 so that I will have the full 16.75 inches at the 5” level. I fear that doing to many outward clicks will give me an ah shape that is too odd. PLUS, Minott recommends a back shoulder dart of .75” wide for the average body….my own bk sh dart is slightly less than that now, but would grow to .75” wide if I increased the BSW to 17. PLUS-PLUS, I do have one prominent shoulder blade that would probably benefit from this larger bk sh dart, I suspect.
.
.

.
.
In back, I increased my measured BSW to 16.75” which gives me *almost* enough blade width at the correct level (5” down). This pattern is actually about 1/8” short of being wide enough there…even though I did 2 clicks outward on the AH SHAPE TOOL. I am considering changing that BSW measurement to 17 so that I will have the full 16.75 inches at the 5” level. I fear that doing to many outward clicks will give me an ah shape that is too odd. But who can believe I would need to use a 17” back shoulder width? That is just so large for my height! I mean, I know I have wide shoulders…but that seems insane! That is an inch longer than my CENTER BACK LENGTH…and ‘average’ is to have these measurements be very similar. Also, my front shoulder width is not nearly that wide! This just seems so ‘off’…but I must keep an open mind! However, for now, I think just doing ONE MORE CLICK outward on the B-Armhole Shape tool will be enough.
.
.

.
.
But here’s the rub: I have decided to lower my SLEEVE CAP HEIGHT again! I have been using (-.5) but I have decided to use (-.75) to get a wider sleeve. This will also provide more room for movement, so I am unsure if I actually need BOTH of these adjustments!
.
.
Another measurement Minott takes is the BACK SHOULDER HEIGHT. Basically, she has you measure from the CB neck to floor, and from the back shoulder to floor and find the difference between these heights. This determines the difference between the CB/neck (before lowering) and the back SHP on the back pattern. PMB does take a BACK SHOULDER SLOPE measurement, which is diagonal from CB waist to shoulder…but measuring straight up from floor leaves no doubt where the starting and ending points are! My own back shoulder height is only 5/8” shorter than my Center Back height…because my shoulders are ‘square’.
.
.
Minott measures Front and Back ARMHOLE DEPTHS separately by placing a plastic ruler under the arm, holding it perfectly level, and measuring from the + mark at the shoulder down the front of the upper arm and down the back…just like I did when I measured to the ‘V’ marks at the top of the armhole creases…but she is going all the way to the ruler in both front and back. This is an eye-opening measurement for me!!! My FRONT AH measured taller than my back! F=7.375, B=6.25 I am now wondering what I have that is ‘wrong’…or maybe, that is OK? Hmmm….
.
.
.
.
.

.

.
.
.
.
.
.
ETA: Back AH actually measured 7" when remeasured the next day!
.
.
From the SHP on the pattern, depth of the back AH DEPTH should be 1.25” more than measured. For me, 6.25 + 1.25 = 7.5…but my B armhole depth measures 7.99”. This ah depth doesn’t feel too low so I think I will try this, assuming the extra is ease for a blouse, as opposed to a sloper ah.
.
.
Minott’s front ah depth is adjusted for cup size…but I am going to use the B-cup instructions, because that uses the AH measurement ‘as is’. My body’s F-AH measured 7.375”…but my pattern’s F-ah only measures 6.5”! Oh dear…I need it to be even taller! Well, this certainly explains the binding I sometimes feel in the F-ah! I can use the DART OVERRIDE TOOL, which will lower the F armhole and decrease the size of the bust dart (using a negative tool setting). I have tried to avoid using that tool if possible, but maybe it’s *necessary* for me. Hmmm. I have been getting too much fullness at the tip of the bust darts on many of these latest tops…indicating too large a dart. I guess I will have to explore the D.O. tool a bit more!
.
.
Now that I think about this a bit...I might ought to consider that I am larger than a B cup. Minott subtracts from the measured F-AH height to adjust for cup sizes...1/4" for C-cup, 3/8" for D-cup, and 1/2" for DD-cup. Since I am in the C-D range, I will set 7" as my 'goal' for F-ah height and see what the D.O. tool gives me.

Regarding Comments on White Roses

In response to recent comments...

Laura asked:
>>>Are you sure your sleeve cap height is right? I can't help but think your sleeve looks like it doesn't have enough width in the cap, causing it to pull both in the front and back. The seams at back and front LOOK like they are properly placed, so it must be the sleeve cap right?<<<

Hi Laura! I tried a lower cap height first, which does produce a wider sleeve. That one had pulls 'out the wazoo'...even worse! So I redrafted and recut the sleeve to have a HIGHER cap, even knowing I would get a narrower sleeve. It was better, pull-wise...but narrower! THAT was my dilemna...how to get a cap that was tall enough and still wide enough without increasing the sleeve's cap ease. My solution was to:

• a) MOVE THE SHOULDER POINTS outward, by increasing both FSW and BSW (and ShL) measurements so the sleeve won't have to reach up so high...the garment's shoulder will reach out to the sleeve! This way, I can use a lower cap height which produces a wider sleeve, and
• b) use the ARMHOLE SHAPE TOOL to make the front between this wider shoulder area and the bust more narrow like it was before widening the shoulders, and
• c) increase the bust circumference measurement/reduce the cup size, to move the back armhole point outward a bit, which produces a larger back-half of the sleeve AND widens the back bodice area so the sleeve will not need to reach so far toward the back to meet the bodice. I am hopeful.

I also found that on both the front and the back bodice, reshaping the upper AHs helped. I'm talking about the area between the Shoulder Point and the notch on front and back. Making these arcs a bit more scooped creates a more pleasing 'hang' of the sleeve (on me). Instead of the sleeve seeming like a ^ at the top, it became more rounded when a tiny bit was removed from the bodice ah. This is a manual change...no tool in the STYLE EDITOR will do it for you (although you CAN use PATTERN EDITOR to redraw it)...and the amount was very small, like 1/8 to 1/4 inch.

>>> the only thing that has even made the shirts wearable was to lower the cap height--like to about a -1 or -1.25. I have been less concerned about some wrinkles from the "casual-ness" of the sleeve cap height than having that annoying pull across the back!<<<

Yes...thanks...I hear ya! I am just going to have to be more accepting of wrinkles in back to get mobility!

>>>Say just a thought...have you ever used Nancy Zieman's slide and pivot methods? The diagram you have in your post makes me think of that....and doing it that way. (Then the question is HOW to get PMB to draft it like that!!)<<<

I have toyed with her methods, but have usually done like I am doing here...figure out the effect her alteration would have on the pattern, then adjust the measurements and settings to 'force' PMB to give me that draft/shape.

Debbie wrote:
>>>My oh my you sure are demanding of your wovens at low ease levels!!:)) <<<

Yep, I am! I actually used 3" of bust ease, which I consider totally doable. I think I should be able to adequately move my arms at even 2" ease ...maybe even at 1"!

>>>Turning to Minott's wrinkle charts I noticed that she also says "or move section 2 out on slv. pattern".<<

Yep...section 2 is the underarm point, which DOES move outward (also) with the addition of bust circumference. If I made that change on the sleeve without changing the bodice, it would add more cap ease. I do know that using more cap ease would give me a wider, more comfortable sleeve, but that is not the kinda of sleeve I am after here.

>>> In her illustration the arm is bent, your's are straight out. When you move your arms as in your pic using low ease I consider the slv. wrinkles and the back strain normal. What else can it do with such little fabric during body movement?<<

Sure, I would expect SOME strain. But that degree of strain suggests to me that the fit is not right. As I said, I am adding 1" more bust circumference for the next one and will still use 3" ease...plus, using a smaller bust CUP SIZE will cause that entire 1" extra to be added to the BACK pattern. A few outward clicks on the AH SHAPE TOOL will make the mid-back/blade ah area slightly wider, too. BTW, I still get strain when the arms are postioned as in Minott's example...of course, not nearly as much!

>>>Do you think your armhole seamlines (both frt/bck) are too far out on arm?<<<

I totally do in the front, but not in back. In BACK, the armhole actually seems to need to be even FARTHER out at its lower part! To illustrate, I watched my back view (in mirror) as I moved my arms around. There is a 'valley' that is forming on my body about .5" outside where the ah seam is located, and that valley is probably where my arm really meets my body...where the ah seam SHOULD be! You can see the vertical wrinkle that forms over that valley in this picture, there on the sleeve, just outside the ah seam.>>>>>

However, in the front, the lower F-armhole seems to be too high up/out on my arm, but using the reduced cup size lowers this for next time. Cross your fingers! XXXXX

>>>Where do you start your slv. easing when setting slvs.? From the frontal pic it looks like there's too much in front cap..yes/no?..and that the easing started too low vs. just on either side of shoulder notch.<<<

Very observant! Yes, as a result of some of my recent sleeve tests, I found my sleeve actually hung better when I spread the ease over a longer distance. In front, I can't spread it as much as in back, but yes, I am easing more than just right at the top of the sleeve cap. That sleeve has 1.5" of cap ease, so must have a decent amount of space to put that into! Now, one must consider that I was trying to make the sleeve I was using hang better....but each time I change a measurement or setting, the armhole changes, and so does the sleeve draft. So the changes I make to cause one sleeve to hang better will not necessarily be necessary for subsequent sleeves, as long as I am still making changes. Put another way, I might not need to spread the ease over a longer area on a different sleeve draft...who knows!

>>>At that low bust ease level there is still alot of excess at back bust area, and those darn wrinkles are still there at base of back armholes..darnit! It's almost like I want to make the whole upper back more narrow and then work on the slv.<<<

See, I am wanting to do the opposite!!! I am wanting to make the upper back wider!!! Or, at least, the 'mid-back', the lower-blade area. With movement, there is NOT enough width across the back! I am almost resigned to the fact that I will HAVE to put up with some excess fabric across the back when my arms are at my sides so that I will have enough fabric across the back to allow me to move my arms up and forward!

>>>Maybe using the side/arm pt. negative is doing that along with too wide widths?..yes/no? But if you don't use side/arm neg. then the pmb slv. will be all screwed up because of how it puts too much in the front cap. Why doesn't pmb evenly distribute cap ease...WHY?:)))) <<<

I am finding that PMB puts nearly 2/3 of the ease into the front sleeve cap and only 1/3 into the back sleeve cap...but I hadn't considered that it might be diferent with different sideseam postions. Sure enough, though, moving the SS forward DOES put MORE of the cap ease into the front half of the sleeve than using a more backwardly-placed sideseam does! Who'dda thunk? I wonder if this is a bug in the program or an intentional drafting choice(?)...and if so, why?

>>>nice alteration on that collar. And that is a cute blouse!<<<

Thanks! I drafted with 3" width at CB for the Italian collar, then modified as shown to flatten it some.

>>>Oh and might I introduce you to a wonderful new fabric blend called cotton with lycra!<<<

I know...and I have some in my stash, waiting to be used! But I don't want to rely on Lycra to solve fit issues. I want to get my fit to the 'as good as it gets' point, then use Lycra for increased comfort!

Ya know, I don't watch a lot of QVC...but occasionally, I will linger on that channel for a few minutes. As you say...pushing up sleeves to compensate for them being too short? Are you kidding me? I have had to do that all my life...that is why I sew!!!

White roses

Stubbornly determined to get a decent sleeve from PMB, I have continued working on getting the armholes ‘right’. I am still *trying* to believe that if the sleeves are bad, that means the bodice/armholes are still wrong, too.

After several aborted attempts, sewing only darts, shoulders and sideseams, I was beginning to run out of this white fabric. I decided to take apart two of the aborted attempts to reuse the front of one with the back of another…recutting them both according to the newest pattern, of course!

But when I got them both ripped apart, I found that my back pattern would NOT fit on the fabric back…the fabric wasn’t long enough for the new pattern! So I had to use the last of the remaining uncut fabric to cut the back…which meant that if I wanted sleeves (which I did) I would have to cut them from the two fabric backs of the previous attempts…so I ripped apart two other previous attempts also, to salvage the backs to use for sleeves!

Well, these backs had had the waist darts marked…twice, actually, in two different colors! So the new sleeves have waist darts marked on the insides…and it shows through this white fabric!

I have enhanced this image so you can see the marks better, as they are much easier to see ‘in person’ than in a picture.






I mark my darts in the traditional way…using a tracing wheel and marking paper. This paper is very old…I don’t like the new stuff I can find. But these marks don’t wash out very easily!

This is how I mark my buttonholes. When I am drafting my PMB pattern, for the number of buttons I choose TWICE PLUS ONE…that way, I can use every other button and omit the bottom TWO button marks…getting a larger space between the last button and the hem than I have between the buttons. For example, I wanted 6 buttons, so I choose 13…twice plus one…then only use 6 of the marks. ALSO, I find that the first mark is slightly lower than I really want it…I don’t know why…so I mark my buttons about ¼” above each mark. I use a hole punch and punch a hole on the center line just above the button marking. Then I use a washaway marker to place a dot in the center of each hole. If it soaks through, I can mark both the buttonholes and the buttons at one time!


As soon as I put this blouse on to check the fit…before putting in sleeves…I could immediately feel the difference! This one felt good! I had made the back longer this time, and it helped a lot. So I decided I would finish this one, complete with collar and sleeves, even if it wasn’t “perfect’.

Since I had decided to put sleeves in this top, I wanted a collar, too…the Italian collar.

But I’ve used this one before, and am not crazy about the way it fits into the CURVED V neckline.

So I altered the pattern, slashing in two places forward of the shoulder mark.

I pivoted the slashes open and inserted paper, so that the slash width at outer edge was .25” at each slash…lengthening the outer edge of the collar by .5”.

*
This made the collar’s neck edge better match the shape of the bodice’s front neck edge.

*

*
*
*But then I decided that the point area was a bit wide, so I used my curved ruler to reshape it some…trimming away about .375” width at the front edge.

*

*

*

After completing the collar, it was time to tackle the sleeves. The first sleeve I set was drafted with a (-.5) cap height. It had obvious pulls, so I ripped and removed to recut with a .25” cap height. There really wasn’t much change.

I released the sleeve cap and immediately, the cross grain hung much more level. Suddenly it occurred to me that what I REALLY needed to do was EXTEND THE SHOULDER of the bodice, as opposed to making the sleeve cap taller! Of course, I have only .375” seam allowance at the armhole, so that isn’t possible on this one…there isn’t much fabric there to steal! But just to see, I pinned the sleeve using only 1/8” seam allowance…as seen on the right…and it was much better! Of course, I couldn’t sew it that way…I needed to use .25” minimum, so I knew it wasn’t gonna end up as nice as it looked at pinning. Oh well! Next time…

The finished blouse *looks* nice enough!

*

I am very pleased with the collar changes.

*

But the sleeves are binding.

As usual.

*
I am wondering if I should increase my Bust to Bust setting...to move the front waist darts outward slightly? Not to affect the sleeves, but just to make it look/fit better!

*

*

*

The back still needs some more length over those protruding shoulder blades, especially that left one!

Hopefully, a bit more Center Back Length will help eliminate those diagonal wrinkles, too, by effectively giving the back pattern more shoulder angle.

I will also raise the back neck depth next time, as I lowered it too much…0.75”…on this one.
*

*

*

*
*

The back REALLY strains with forward arm movement.

To try to figure this out, I turned to the wrinkle charts in Total Pattern Fit, Minott Method.

I have already raised the armhole depth, so that isn’t it. The cap is definitely NOT too long, so that isn’t it. I could use more width across the blades, although with the arms at my sides it looks ok. The sleeve IS too narrow. I am thinking that fixing the back width will also fix the sleeve.

See how she moves OUT the back underarm? That is NOT just moving the sideseam forward…that is a NET GAIN. To accomplish that with my PMB pattern, I must do two things…reduce the Bust Cup Size (again?) and increase the Bust Measurement.

Neither change alone will do it---

• Increasing the Bust Measurement will add to both front and back at underarm points…not just to the back.
• And reducing the Cup size will add to the back underarm point but will take from the front.

No, it will take BOTH of these changes to increase the width of the back pattern without changing the width of the front.

And once the back pattern has been increased at underarm point, I can use the ARMHOLE SHAPE TOOL to increase the width at the blade level…halfway height of the armhole.

And the sleeves should take care of themselves, once the armhole changes are in place!

Here is the pattern for this white blouse (pink) superimposed on the NEXT ONE.
For the next one, I increased the BUST CIRCUMFERENCE measurement by one inch, and reduced the Bust Cup Size by one letter (C to B, which meant I also had to INCREASE the Center Front Length and Front Shoulder Slope to compensate for the lost front length the larger cup size provides). I also had to increase the Bust Point Vertical setting, lowering it 0.25” (again, because the larger cup size would have done that for me).

On the front pattern, the next one will be wider through the shoulders (longer shoulder length). Notice the odd shape of the new upper front armhole…almost like that ‘arc’ is backwards. Actually, it is…I will redraw it to scoop inward instead of outward. I don’t know why PMB draws the upper armholes whacky sometimes. Trying to do a complex shape with too few components, I suspect.

The front armhole is lower and the bust dart is smaller…because of the reduced cup size (B for next one, this one was C). I have been getting fullness at the tip/release of the bust darts on many of these last few tops…indicating that perhaps the bust darts were actually too large. Also notice that the front shoulder is higher on the new one…since I extended it outward, I think it will also need a bit more height to go over the ‘roundness’ of the shoulder joint!

Also, since the upper sideseam was moved forward as a result of the cup change, I used the SS placement tool to move the lower sideseam forward also, to get mirrored sideseams.

The back is a little longer/taller through the center, but the back shoulders are not taller. The back neck depth has been raised .25” (although it looks like it is much higher when the patterns are aligned at the waist, instead of at the Neck Point!) The back shoulder dart will be slightly smaller next time, because I increased the Front Shoulder With MORE than I increased the Back Shoulder Width.

I am hopeful that these changes will produce a comfortable sleeve. I am hoping that adding that extra inch of BUST Circumference will not make the blouse fit too loosely.
People ask me why I need for the back pattern to be so wide. Since I have a full bust, they expect me to need a wider front pattern. But perhaps it is those protruding shoulder blades…perhaps the wide shoulders…perhaps the forwardly rolled shoulders? All I know is: there has GOT to be a way to get a well-fitting pattern with comfortable sleeves!

And I think this next one might be ‘it’!!!