Aqua Fitted Princess and Kimono

Back in April, right after the wedding, I worked a bit on fitting a knit top.  Although it wasn't perfect, the improved fit of the MOG dress had me raring to go, anxious to see if I could improve the fit of the knit garments too.

Ok, that was PART of the inspiration, but there was more.  I had fabric that was tempting me.

Last Fall, when shopping for the MOG dress, I stumbled onto some fabric at THE FABRIC SOURCE in Jackson, TN.  It was a floral printed stretch tulle.  Precut into approximately 2yd lengths, I bought 2 of them, for $5 each.  They provided instructions for a no-sew swimsuit coverup...you just cut it into a big oval and cut out armholes. 

Well, also on that same trip, we stopped and did a bit of shopping at FELICIA BELLA BOUTIQUE, also in Jackson.  I had tried on a long-sleeved pullover made of...you guessed it!...printed stretch tulle!  I didn't buy it because it was nearly $60!  But I studied it as closely as I could in this not-so-private dressing room.  I even did a bit of measuring!  It seemed to be almost a long tube with two holes in the middle...one for the body and one for the head. 

Inspired by the memory of that top, and wanting to use this fabric to get it out of my way,, I decided to start cutting.  I layed out the fabric on my table and cut what I hoped would be similar to the shape I had tried on (months ago!). 

Well, it wasn't good.  So I went to the computer and opened my PMB software!  I drafted a KIMONO pullover, then compared the patterns on screen.

As you can see, there wasn't much difference between the front and back patterns. 
Here, the front is RED.

 I decided that I would just use the BACK PATTERN...but I still didn't want to have to print it, because, after all, this was simple, right?

So I measured it!  Then I could print this diagram on one piece of paper, take it to the fabric and measure and cut.  It seemed like a good plan.

There was ONE PLACE I was having a hard time just winging it...and that was the sideseam/underarm area.  So I printed ONLY that area and placed it where the measurements dictated:

Above is the sideseam...the right edge of this paper is the cutting line.
Once I began actually plotting out my cuts, I made another change.  I LOWERED the angle of the arm by 3 inches....shown below by the dark blue line.

But after sewing this (yet again), I still wasn't happy with the way the sleeves draped.  I knew this was gonna be loose and drapey, but I didn't want it twisting!  And yes, the sleeves seemed kinda twisty.  So I ripped and reshaped the FRONT sleeve to lower the over-sleeve seam by 2" at wrist AND, I shorted that seam by 2" also.  This allowed me to ease the back seam to the front, creating fullness in back and eliminating the twisting.  Good enough! 

**

I hemmed the neck and lower edge, as well as the sleeves, with the coverstitch machine, turning a small hem to the backside.

Now it was time to make something to wear UNDER this!  I drafted a fairly closely fitted Princess seamed tank and cut it from some cotton interlock.  Oh dear.

Remember?  Back in the post about the ZERO EASE TORSO BLOCK, I discussed the armhole shape and how I was lowering the notch on the BACK armhole so it would coincide with my body's ah measurement...but I was NOT doing it on the front armhole because it just looked 'too scooped'.  Well, after sewing the MOG dress and realizing that the armholes were still not perfect, I decided to give it a try.  I used the AH SHAPE TOOL to lower the front notch until the distance from shoulder to notch matched the distance on my body from shoulder to the V-crease where arm meets body...look back at the HELPING MEASUREMENTS if you need further explanation.

Here is the pattern I came up with.

You can (hopefully) see how very 'J' shaped that front armhole is!  Pattern on the left, FYI.

As I said--Oh dear.

Or, rather--

OH.MAH.GAH. BECKY, Look at that armhole!

The front armhole was WAY too scooped...making this top potentially a wadder. 

The shoulder angle seemed ok, though.
Overall, it wasn't totally unfortunate.

I was SHOCKED by the back:  I think this is the first time ever that the back neck has actually come up to the bone where the back neck is supposed to come to!  I put in a pin to show where I will lower the neck to.

I liked this style and this fabric, though, knew I had to find a way to salvage this top.

 

Somehow I got it into my mind that I should NOT have used the E cup to draft with after all...and that I needed to shorten the whole upper front, which I could do by ripping the shoulders and cutting off the front shoulder before resewing them....so I did.***

***later evaluation of the fit proved the front was now a tiny bit too short...that front length was needed and should NOT have been whacked off!  It was those goofy armholes making me crazy.  

Anyway, I decided that I could create some facing-like pieces...like a yoke, perhaps...that could be sewn on to fill in the missing area of the F-armhole.  So I went back to the computer/drafter.

Since I had felt the need to shorten the upper front, the obvious conclusion (to me, that day) was that I had used a bust cup size that was too large (E) and should reduce it.  So I did.

***another spoiler alert!  Bad idea...but I got away with it on this top, this time.

Here you can see the NEW FRONT PATTERN (in RED) superimposed on the old pattern.  The new front is shorter at the shoulder.  The new pattern has a smaller bust dart (so the angle of the upper front is different) and the new armhole is both higher and less scooped (The back armhole is higher on the new pattern, too, but I didn't show that).

I aligned the sides to the center pieces and created 'yokes' that could be cut from the remnants I had left.

 But I needed to know WHERE to trim off the existing garment so I could sew on those yokes!  So I created and printed little 'yokes'  from the original pattern, too, and used them like templates to show me where to cut.  The upper pieces in this image are the 'cutting patterns' and the lower pieces are the new yokes to be sewn on.  you can see that, on the FRONT pattern, there will not be much cut off in the 'scooped' area!   But there WILL be quite a bit added back on, via the yoke, in that area.



And it worked!  It actually looked pretty good...like a design element!  I had top-stitched the seams with the cover-stitch machine, so I top-stitched the new yoke seams, too.

Here is what it looked like right after sewing:

Front--

 And back--

As you can see, there is some fullness (rippling) in the back armhole that I didn't notice at the time.  I used clear elastic to stabilize the neck and armhole edges when hemming.  But it wasn't until earlier LAST WEEK that I realized WHY this might be happening. 

I was discussing a program issue with Tech Support Karen...the Dart Override tool isn't working with my numbers...and she asked my why I was enlarging the armhole by raising the shoulder with the SHOULDER HEIGHT TOOL but then trying to shorten the Front Armhole with the Dart Override.

Well, the SHOULDER HEIGHT TOOL affects both front and back patterns, but the DART OVERRIDE tool only affects the FRONT armhole (or at least, that is how it is supposed to work) by putting some of the bust dart into the armhole OR by stealing some of the front armhole to enlarge the bust dart (this is what I was trying to do).

So, even though they do two different things, it did get me thinking about the shoulder height setting and 'what if'...

Up to this point, I have been operating on the assumption that the pattern's shoulder angle was correct for me (and my square shoulders) when I raised that setting 0.5". 

But further reflection has me thinking that:

• a) lowering the shoulder tip by 0.5" might eliminate that back ah rippling, and
• b) I should have just lowered the F-shoulder tip in front instead of whacking off the whole front shoulder!  This was kind of a light-bulb moment.

So, for the NEXT ONE......I will NOT raise the shoulder height.  We will see how that does!
And I will go back to the E cup, which is what I should be using.  But I will NOT scoop those front armholes to force the measurements to match my body's measurements!  obviously, the front notch is NOT supposed to be an anatomical location!

A Fitting Outcome

Today I spent the afternoon reviewing a couple of things I made last fall and evaluating the fit (and patterns) and deciding what I would change in the future.  I need small changes in the PMK arena…but LARGE changes in the PMB one! 

In September I sewed a sheath (partially sewn, anyway!) and I had basted the waist line on it to evaluate the fit.  That was a good idea!  I had the waist too low by 1.5”!  I knew I had gradually lengthened my CBL/CFL, etc, but I really overdid it! 

In this picture, I have a narrow elastic band around my waist, too.  It *is* level...too bad the camera angle is not!  Look at the walls/corners... But you can see the basted wasitline below the elastic band.

I also had gobs too much waist ease in this sheath!  I had used 5"...what?  Who knows...  But I had to redo that, too.

 

But back to that waist level...

The interesting thing to me was that although the back waist was 1.5” too low, it was only 1” too low in the front.  This tells me I also need to increase the CUP SIZE that I draft with.  That way, when I raise the waist by 1.5” (and the front waist level becomes too high) the increased bust cup will lower the front waist to make it level with the back. 

This dress was drafted with a D cup.  In my new/subsequent measurement chart, to correct for this I had actually gone up to an F cup, but I think that might be a bit excessive…an E is probably close enough.  See, in order to 'level' the waist, I need an additional .5” of bodice length in front….an E cup will add .375” (which is just a tiny bit less than needed) but an F cup adds .75” (which is a little more than needed!).

I could go either way...

And really, I guess this cup thing can be variable, according to how I want the garment to fit…depending on whether I want the front to be 'contoured' under the bust or not!  For an 'easier' fit, an E cup is fine…but for a closer, contoured fit, the F is what I should use! 

 

Just fyi, I had to rip and redo the shoulders on this sheath to take up  0.5" at the back SHP.  This meant I needed to reduce the BSS in my chart by 0.5"...which is a lot to be 'off'.  Again, tinkering over time was involved...forgetting to check what was done last time before proceeding this time!  That is what happens when one only works at this in spurts!   I had corrected the shoulders in my PMK chart, but forgot to do it in PMB.

 

In PMK, I learned (or re-learned!) a few things that I will document here so I can hopefully remember them!  These findings apply to the KNITS program.

 

1. Cup size does NOT affect the size of the front armhole.  If you need to affect the balance of the front and back armhole sizes, you must use the Dart Override tool.  (This differs from the way it works in PMB, where larger cup sizes produce smaller front armholes.)
2. Increasing the cup size lowers the bust point.  If you KNOW the bust point should be at a certain level and the increased cup size lowers it, then you should CHANGE the number in the BUST POINT/VERTICAL setting to raise it up to the correct distance from the NP/shoulder.  For example, if your BP measurement is 10.75" and increasing from a D to an E cup puts it lower on the pattern, then you should use 10.5 or even 10.25 as your BP/Vertical setting so that the BP on the pattern will be 10.75" from the np/shoulder on the pattern.  Measure!!!
3. Raising the BP/Vertical setting also raises the underarm level!
4. When lowering the armhole depth, remember to raise the underarm of the sleeve!  (lower cap height)
5. Sleeve underarm length is based on a 'zero' cap height.  If you RAISE the cap height, the sleeve will be too long!  ...so remember to also adjust the sleeve length...

Ok, now that I have written this here, I wonder if it is safe to throw away the scraps and notes cluttering my desk...?

Jalie 2794 via PMB, take two!

Here is my second attempt at creating this style using PMB. This one is better, but still not great. Style-wise, I think I have most of the 'moves' down pat...but the basic block I started with is still not perfect.

Remember how, on that last one, the armhole seams hung WAY off my shoulders? Well, even after scaling, they still do. My Front Shoulder Width measurement in my chart is 15.5" I don't know why. Here, I determined that using a FSW of 15" gives me the needed width across my upper chest. I don't remember when or why I increased that, but for the next one, it will be changed back to 15", and I'll reduce the SHOULDER LENGTH measurement by .25", too, to keep the front neck opening as-is.

Speaking of neck openings, what is up with my back neck size? At some point I must have decided to increase my NECK CIRCUMFERENCE measurement to give me a wider neck opening on the back pattern...it is much wider than the front pattern's neck width. They should be fairly close to equal, although the back CAN be wider to reduce the size of the back shoulder dart. I am sure this was my intent, because those back shoulder darts have been the bane of my existence since I began using PMB! I don't want huge back shoulder darts...they don't look right when I sew them, but my upper back is much wider than my upper chest, so they are necessary for controlling the length of the back shoulder seam.




Well, when the back neck is too wide, it allows the front shoulders to 'spread'...making the front neck opening as wide as the back neck opening...which then pushes the armholes out that much farther! So, in addition to a FSW that is a little too wide to start with, the neck is also contributing to this problem. You can bet I will change that for the next one!

For this top, I used the setting called NO BACK SHOULDER DART. It drafts no back shoulder dart (duh) and reduces the width of the upper back so that the back shoulders are the same width as the front shoulders. As you can see, the armholes in back are still WAY out on my arms. In experimenting with numbers (after sewing this) I found that reducing the Neck Circumference Measurement will cause these seams to move inward...next time.





As I mentioned before, I still think I need to increase the size of the bust dart by increasing the cup size I am using. I have gone back and forth with this...but after reading the book mentioned here, I am pretty sure the size and balance of the armholes is critical. I must get those right and use whatever dart size follows.





Here you can see the little fold that forms on the sides of my bust at the bottom of the front armhole. There is no corresponding fold in back...just in front. This leads me to believe that back armhole is too short for the front armhole (or the front armhole is too long for the back).

I also think I could have used less bust ease. I used 2" bust, 3" waist and 3" hip ease...then scaled the pattern 96%. I think once the armhole seams are up on the body where they belong, using a little less bust ease will be needed to pull the side at underarm inward, too.

I feel like this style is making me look VERY large and top-heavy! I am hoping it is just the too-wide shoulders and excess fullness at bust, but it could be that the horizontal gathers between the bust is just not my look.



To create this style, I started with the BLOUSE with the side dart.



I used a SQUARE neck,
Front Neck Depth =5.5", and
I reshaped it using the neck shape tools...
27 clicks up and 21 clicks left.
This gave me a sweetheart shape.


First, I extended the bust dart all the way to the bust point.

I located a point on the sideseam that was 2.5" below underarm level, and drew an arc from that point to corner of neck.

I located a point on the CF seam that was 5" below the neckline, then another point at its midpoint.

I also drew some GUIDELINES:

• a vertical grainline in the shoulder area;
• a horizontal line from BustPoint to CF;
• and another front BP to lower armhole.

Then I removed the yoke area from the front pattern.



On the front pattern, I selected everything above the bust dart (blue) and rotated CCW, using BP as pivot point, to close HALF of the bust dart.

Then I selected only the side area of the upper front (green) and rotated again, using BP as pivot point, to close remainder of bust dart. This put HALF the bust dart into the Center Front and HALF into the seam that would join the yoke...to be eased.
*
*
*
*




I redrew the arc just to smooth it out a bit, then I measured and added notches to both the yoke and lower front.

The one thing I wasn't sure what to do with was that tiny vertical dart at the front neck. I planned to gather the upper center front, which would take care of the vertical excess created by the bust dart, but what about the horizontal excess? I didn't want to sew a dart or create a seam there.

Remember, I had located a point on the CF that was 5" below the neck. The bust dart added another inch. so rather than gather this 6" down to the original 5", I decided I would gather it to 4", and that would probably use up the horizontal excess, too.

Well, maybe it did and maybe it didn't.


Anyway, this is how I did it. I'll probably try this one more time, but I am not sure I love the horizontal gathers in the center front. Perhaps FEWER gathers? Perhaps keep them higher (not go all the way to the 5" point but stop at 4, maybe?


Although the waist darts are on the pattern, I didn't sew them.

Here are my drafting choices:

Garment Type: Blouse
Style: Blouse
Closure: No Closure
Front Neckline: Square
Back Neckline: Jewel
Hemline Sweep: Straight
Hemline Shape: Straight
Front Darts: Side
Back Darts: No Darts
Sideseam Shape: Fitted

Front Neckline Depth: 5.5
Back Neckline Depth: 0.75
Neckline Width: 0.25 ***(look how much wider the neck looks...even the added band width has plenyt of room. This is because of that back neck being too wide.)
Neckline Point: 0
Front Neckline Shape Up: 2.7 clicks
Front Neckline Shape Right: -2.1 clicks (I guess a 'negative' right click equals a left click?)

Armhole Depth: -1
Sleeve Style: Set In
Sleeve Underarm Seam: Tapered --(I might try the curved next time, but I was chicken.)
Sleeve Hemline Shape: Straight
Sleeve Length: Wrist
Sleeve Cap Ease: 0.32 ***(notice, hardly ANY cap ease!)
Sleeve Underarm Length: 20
Sleeve Overarm Length: 24.65 ***(yeah, I have gorilla arms.)
Sleeve Hem Circumference: 9.5
Sleeve Elbow Depth: 8
Sleeve Elbow Circum.: 13
Sleeve Cap Height Adj: -0.75*** (This will probably change when I get those armhole seams up ON my body!)

Regarding Comments on White Roses

In response to recent comments...

Laura asked:
>>>Are you sure your sleeve cap height is right? I can't help but think your sleeve looks like it doesn't have enough width in the cap, causing it to pull both in the front and back. The seams at back and front LOOK like they are properly placed, so it must be the sleeve cap right?<<<

Hi Laura! I tried a lower cap height first, which does produce a wider sleeve. That one had pulls 'out the wazoo'...even worse! So I redrafted and recut the sleeve to have a HIGHER cap, even knowing I would get a narrower sleeve. It was better, pull-wise...but narrower! THAT was my dilemna...how to get a cap that was tall enough and still wide enough without increasing the sleeve's cap ease. My solution was to:

• a) MOVE THE SHOULDER POINTS outward, by increasing both FSW and BSW (and ShL) measurements so the sleeve won't have to reach up so high...the garment's shoulder will reach out to the sleeve! This way, I can use a lower cap height which produces a wider sleeve, and
• b) use the ARMHOLE SHAPE TOOL to make the front between this wider shoulder area and the bust more narrow like it was before widening the shoulders, and
• c) increase the bust circumference measurement/reduce the cup size, to move the back armhole point outward a bit, which produces a larger back-half of the sleeve AND widens the back bodice area so the sleeve will not need to reach so far toward the back to meet the bodice. I am hopeful.

I also found that on both the front and the back bodice, reshaping the upper AHs helped. I'm talking about the area between the Shoulder Point and the notch on front and back. Making these arcs a bit more scooped creates a more pleasing 'hang' of the sleeve (on me). Instead of the sleeve seeming like a ^ at the top, it became more rounded when a tiny bit was removed from the bodice ah. This is a manual change...no tool in the STYLE EDITOR will do it for you (although you CAN use PATTERN EDITOR to redraw it)...and the amount was very small, like 1/8 to 1/4 inch.

>>> the only thing that has even made the shirts wearable was to lower the cap height--like to about a -1 or -1.25. I have been less concerned about some wrinkles from the "casual-ness" of the sleeve cap height than having that annoying pull across the back!<<<

Yes...thanks...I hear ya! I am just going to have to be more accepting of wrinkles in back to get mobility!

>>>Say just a thought...have you ever used Nancy Zieman's slide and pivot methods? The diagram you have in your post makes me think of that....and doing it that way. (Then the question is HOW to get PMB to draft it like that!!)<<<

I have toyed with her methods, but have usually done like I am doing here...figure out the effect her alteration would have on the pattern, then adjust the measurements and settings to 'force' PMB to give me that draft/shape.

Debbie wrote:
>>>My oh my you sure are demanding of your wovens at low ease levels!!:)) <<<

Yep, I am! I actually used 3" of bust ease, which I consider totally doable. I think I should be able to adequately move my arms at even 2" ease ...maybe even at 1"!

>>>Turning to Minott's wrinkle charts I noticed that she also says "or move section 2 out on slv. pattern".<<

Yep...section 2 is the underarm point, which DOES move outward (also) with the addition of bust circumference. If I made that change on the sleeve without changing the bodice, it would add more cap ease. I do know that using more cap ease would give me a wider, more comfortable sleeve, but that is not the kinda of sleeve I am after here.

>>> In her illustration the arm is bent, your's are straight out. When you move your arms as in your pic using low ease I consider the slv. wrinkles and the back strain normal. What else can it do with such little fabric during body movement?<<

Sure, I would expect SOME strain. But that degree of strain suggests to me that the fit is not right. As I said, I am adding 1" more bust circumference for the next one and will still use 3" ease...plus, using a smaller bust CUP SIZE will cause that entire 1" extra to be added to the BACK pattern. A few outward clicks on the AH SHAPE TOOL will make the mid-back/blade ah area slightly wider, too. BTW, I still get strain when the arms are postioned as in Minott's example...of course, not nearly as much!

>>>Do you think your armhole seamlines (both frt/bck) are too far out on arm?<<<

I totally do in the front, but not in back. In BACK, the armhole actually seems to need to be even FARTHER out at its lower part! To illustrate, I watched my back view (in mirror) as I moved my arms around. There is a 'valley' that is forming on my body about .5" outside where the ah seam is located, and that valley is probably where my arm really meets my body...where the ah seam SHOULD be! You can see the vertical wrinkle that forms over that valley in this picture, there on the sleeve, just outside the ah seam.>>>>>

However, in the front, the lower F-armhole seems to be too high up/out on my arm, but using the reduced cup size lowers this for next time. Cross your fingers! XXXXX

>>>Where do you start your slv. easing when setting slvs.? From the frontal pic it looks like there's too much in front cap..yes/no?..and that the easing started too low vs. just on either side of shoulder notch.<<<

Very observant! Yes, as a result of some of my recent sleeve tests, I found my sleeve actually hung better when I spread the ease over a longer distance. In front, I can't spread it as much as in back, but yes, I am easing more than just right at the top of the sleeve cap. That sleeve has 1.5" of cap ease, so must have a decent amount of space to put that into! Now, one must consider that I was trying to make the sleeve I was using hang better....but each time I change a measurement or setting, the armhole changes, and so does the sleeve draft. So the changes I make to cause one sleeve to hang better will not necessarily be necessary for subsequent sleeves, as long as I am still making changes. Put another way, I might not need to spread the ease over a longer area on a different sleeve draft...who knows!

>>>At that low bust ease level there is still alot of excess at back bust area, and those darn wrinkles are still there at base of back armholes..darnit! It's almost like I want to make the whole upper back more narrow and then work on the slv.<<<

See, I am wanting to do the opposite!!! I am wanting to make the upper back wider!!! Or, at least, the 'mid-back', the lower-blade area. With movement, there is NOT enough width across the back! I am almost resigned to the fact that I will HAVE to put up with some excess fabric across the back when my arms are at my sides so that I will have enough fabric across the back to allow me to move my arms up and forward!

>>>Maybe using the side/arm pt. negative is doing that along with too wide widths?..yes/no? But if you don't use side/arm neg. then the pmb slv. will be all screwed up because of how it puts too much in the front cap. Why doesn't pmb evenly distribute cap ease...WHY?:)))) <<<

I am finding that PMB puts nearly 2/3 of the ease into the front sleeve cap and only 1/3 into the back sleeve cap...but I hadn't considered that it might be diferent with different sideseam postions. Sure enough, though, moving the SS forward DOES put MORE of the cap ease into the front half of the sleeve than using a more backwardly-placed sideseam does! Who'dda thunk? I wonder if this is a bug in the program or an intentional drafting choice(?)...and if so, why?

>>>nice alteration on that collar. And that is a cute blouse!<<<

Thanks! I drafted with 3" width at CB for the Italian collar, then modified as shown to flatten it some.

>>>Oh and might I introduce you to a wonderful new fabric blend called cotton with lycra!<<<

I know...and I have some in my stash, waiting to be used! But I don't want to rely on Lycra to solve fit issues. I want to get my fit to the 'as good as it gets' point, then use Lycra for increased comfort!

Ya know, I don't watch a lot of QVC...but occasionally, I will linger on that channel for a few minutes. As you say...pushing up sleeves to compensate for them being too short? Are you kidding me? I have had to do that all my life...that is why I sew!!!